What does the Bible Teach about the Trinity?

[Greg West]

I received the following message this week in response to a post in another forum about the Book of Mormon. (I get lots of mail like this.) This exact cut-and-paste quotation from one particular anti-Mormon web site is often sent to me. Anti-Mormons don't actually think or reason. They cut and paste whatever is provided to them from anti-Mormon web sites. A long time ago, they had to go to the trouble to read a book and then type out their rants. Now they just Google "Mormons," pick an "anti" site and copy-and-paste the text onto another web site.

First, you'll note that this is an attack that doesn't have anything to do with the Book of Mormon. At the end of this rant, the guy posted a link to an anti-Mormon web site, which as you would expect, doesn't provide the most unbiased presentation of our beliefs. If you were wanting information about buying a Ford, would you reasonably expect the Chevrolet dealer to give you an unbiased answer? First, here's the post:

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The reason Mormonism is not Christian is because it denies one or more of the essential doctrines of Christianity. Of the essential doctrines (that there is only one God, Jesus is God in flesh, forgiveness of sins is by grace alone, and Jesus rose from the dead physically, the gospel being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus), Mormonism denies three of them: how many gods there are, the person of Jesus, and His work of salvation.

Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones (D. & C. 130:22) and that Jesus is a creation. It teaches that he was begotten in heaven as one of God’s spirit children (See the Book, Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage, p. 8). This is in strict contrast to the biblical teaching that he is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14), eternal (John 1:1, 2, 15), uncreated, yet born on earth (Col. 1:15), and the creator all (John 1:3; Col. 1;16-17). Jesus cannot be both created and not created at the same time. Though Mormonism teaches that Jesus is god in flesh, it teaches that he is "a" god in flesh, one of three gods that comprise the office of the Trinity (Articles of Faith, by Talmage, pp. 35-40). These three gods are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. This is in direct contradiction of the biblical doctrine that there is only one God (Isaiah 44:6,8; 45:5).

Repent and believe the true Gospel while you still have time. Mormonism is in harmony with the father of all lies, Satan, rather than the truth of the Holy Scriptures that are God breathed (2 Timothy 3:16,17)
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Latter-day Saints believe in God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. We believe they are separate and distinct beings, not a triune being as taught by sectarian Christianity. We know this by direct revelation and also the testimony of the scriptures, to include the Holy Bible. The doctrine of the Triune God originated after the time of the New Testament and dates back to the controversies of the third and fourth centuries.

The Catholic Encylopedia tells us:

"In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together."

"When the fact of revelation, understood in its full sense as the speech of God to man, is no longer admitted, the rejection of the doctrine follows as a necessary consequence. For this reason it has no place in the Liberal Protestantism of today. The writers of this school contend that the doctrine of the Trinity, as professed by the Church, is not contained in the New Testament, but that it was first formulated in the second century and received final approbation in the fourth, as the result of the Arian and Macedonian controversies."

Did you see it? If not, go back and read this citation again. It says that, once revelation is no longer admitted, then rejection of the doctrine follows as a necessary consequence. The doctrine of the Trinity or Triune God is not the product of revelation, but is a man-made product, formulated in the second century and approved in the fourth..

The web site of the Southern Baptist Convention tells us:

[Jesus] was raised from the dead with a glorified body and appeared to His disciples as the person who was with them before His crucifixion. He ascended into heaven and is now exalted at the right hand of God where He is the One Mediator, fully God, fully man, in whose Person is effected the reconciliation between God and man. He will return in power and glory to judge the world and to consummate His redemptive mission. He now dwells in all believers as the living and ever present Lord.

For Christians who believe in an "unchanging" God, Jesus sure went through a lot of changes. They tell us he was a Spirit, then he became a man, then died, then rose again with his body, ascended to heaven, and is now exalted on the right hand of himself? He will return bodily to earth with the resurrected body, but he now "dwells in us" as a Spirit? What happened to his body? Where is his resurrected body now? When he comes back as a resurrected being, will he not dwell in us any more? It's a mass of contradictions here.

The Methodists are equally, if not more confused. The Methodist Articles of Religion teach that:

"There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body or parts, of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the maker and preserver of all things, both visible and invisible. And in unity of this Godhead there are three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost."

"The Son, who is the Word of the Father, the very and eternal God, of one substance with the Father, took man's nature in the womb of the blessed Virgin; so that two whole and perfect natures, that is to say, the Godhead and Manhood, were joined together in one person, never to be divided; whereof is one Christ, very God and very Man, who truly suffered, was crucified, dead, and buried, to reconcile his Father to us, and to be a sacrifice, not only for original guilt, but also for actual sins of men."

"Christ did truly rise again from the dead, and took again his body, with all things appertaining to the perfection of man's nature, wherewith he ascended into heaven, and there sitteth until he return to judge all men at the last day."

Ok, where to begin in this jumble of confusion? They have one God without body or parts. Yet this being who had no body or parts suffered, was crucified, died, and was buried. This being with no body or parts then rose from the dead. This being, who has no body "took again his body" and "all things appertaining to the perfection of man's nature" and ascended into heaven with it only to lose it again and be an incorporeal spirit. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that this is utter nonsense. Somebody made this up!

The Assemblies of God church doesn't do much better. Their web site says:

"The terms "Trinity" and "persons" as related to the Godhead, while not found in the Scriptures, are words in harmony with Scripture."

This admission is from a denomination that teaches that an inerrant Bible is the sola scriptura, the only source of revelation from God to man. Thus, if the Trinity isn't in the Bible, by their own doctrine they are shown to teach something unscriptural.

From the Presbyterian Church USA web site, we find:

"Early Christians found some of their oral and written traditions puzzling. Was the God of the Old Testament a different God from the God of the New Testament? Did one God have no beginning and another one have his beginning at Bethlehem? Was the God of law separate from the God of grace? Were Divine beings sent from heaven to earth like relay runners, one carrying on after another one finished?

And if Christ is God and if God is non-physical Spirit, does that mean that Christ never really had flesh and blood? Since there is no full discussion of these questions in the Bible, the source of Christian doctrine, varying--indeed, clashing--answers were given to these theological questions. Christians were in a dilemma as to what to believe."

So the Presbyterians say that Christians didn't know what to believe! As you can plainly see, mainstream Christian denominations admit that the doctrine of the Trinity did not originate with the Bible or the primitive Church of the New Testament period.

WHERE DOES THE CONCEPT OF A TRIUNE GOD ORIGINATE?

Early Christians knew and recognized that God the Father and God the son were separate, distinct beings. Later in the first century and on into the second, Greek converts began to bring with them the influence of Greek philosophy, particularly the teachings of Plato, who lived 400 years earlier. By the third and fourth centuries, Neo-Platonists virtually redefined the Christian concept of the Godhead. One of the corruptions of true Christianity had to do with the association with the "Logos" with Jesus Christ.

PBS, an objective, neutral (non-Mormon and non-Christian) source defines the word logos as:

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"A principle originating in classical Greek thought which refers to a universal divine reason, immanent in nature, yet transcending all oppositions and imperfections in the cosmos and humanity. An eternal and unchanging truth present from the time of creation, available to every individual who seeks it. A unifying and liberating revelatory force which reconciles the human with the divine; manifested in the world as an act of God's love in the form of the Christ."

Logos - Longer definition: The Greek word logos (traditionally meaning word, thought, principle, or speech) has been used among both philosophers and theologians. In most of its usages, logos is marked by two main distinctions - the first dealing with human reason (the rationality in the human mind which seeks to attain universal understanding and harmony), the second with universal intelligence (the universal ruling force governing and revealing through the cosmos to humankind, i.e., the Divine).

The Greek philosopher Heraclitus appears to be the first to have used the word logos to refer to a rational divine intelligence, which today is sometimes referred to in scientific discourse as the "mind of God." The early Greek philosophical tradition known as Stoicism, which held that every human participates in a universal and divinely ordained community, then used the Logos doctrine as a principle for human law and morality. The Stoics believed that to achieve freedom, happiness, and meaning one should attune one's life to the wisdom of God's will, manifest in the second distinction (above) of Logos. The Christian church then extended the Stoic idea of the universal community by claiming the universal nature of salvation and the potential for all humans to participate in it.

In the New Testament, the phrase "Word (Logos) of God," found in John 1:1 and elsewhere, shows God's desire and ability to "speak" to the human. The Christian expression of this communication is evidenced in the Christ, who is the "Word become flesh." In these three biblical words, Christianity points to the possibility of union between the human and the divine, or the personal and the absolute. God's logos, which the Christ represents, acts as a bridge between the human's inner spiritual needs and the answer proclaimed by the Christian message.

Because it is highly philosophical, the logos doctrine has caused some of the more orthodox theologians of recent times to claim that it should not be used in theology, while other theologians claim it is absolutely necessary to a doctrine of God. According to the philosopher and theologian Paul Tillich, "He who sacrifices the Logos principle sacrifices the idea of a living God, and he who rejects the application of this principle to Jesus as the Christ rejects his character as Christ." In other words, without an understanding of God's love, will, and power as a living and active force in the world - through the logos in the Christ and through our participation in the logos with our reason - the Christian message becomes a lifeless and inconsequential set of doctrines which can be accepted or rejected without bearing on one's life.
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Elder Bruce R. McConkie wrote:

"According to Plato's philosophy, "everything which exists in heaven or in earth, except Deity or unorganized matter...had a beginning--there was a time when it did not exist, but there never was a time when the idea, that is, the form or plan of the thing, did not exist in the mind of Deity. This idea or intelligence existing with God from all eternity is what Plato called the Logos--the word or the intelligence of Deity."

Thus we can see that the doctrine of Logos originated with the pagan philosophies of Greece some four centuries before the beginning of the Christian Era. Those teachings were adopted by the Christian Church once the living witness of Jesus, the apostles, were dead and gone. However there is much evidence in the writings of the Bible to show what New Testament Christians believed and knew.

THE BIBLE SHOWS THE GODHEAD CONSISTS OF THREE SEPARATE, DISTINCT PERSONAGES

It's hard to know where to begin, because the Bible verses alone that show that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are separate distinct personages are so voluminous that I could write a book on the subject. Let's just go through the Bible in no particular order and look at some of the verses that describe the nature of the members of the Godhead.

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (1 John 5:7)

How are they one? Jesus later prayed that his disciples would be one, like him and his Father: one in spirit and purpose.

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." (Luke 24:39)

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." (John 17:20-23)

Jewish law said that two witnesses were needed to establish and corroborate testimony. Jesus was one witness and his Father was the other. Why would he say this if they were the same person?

It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. (John 8:17-18)

At the baptism of Jesus, we see all three members of the Godhead, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost manifested in separate places at the same time.

"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (Matthew 3:16-17)

Some would say that God is all-powerful and that he could appear and manifest himself in many ways and many places simultaneously. My reply is, why would he do that knowing the controversy and confusion it would ultimately cause? It is not within his nature to deceive us. His house is not a house of confusion. The confusion results from man's attempts to make the Bible fit a doctrinal template, not their doctrine to the Bible's teachings. Also, if the Bible is inerrant, as most sectarians believe, why not just believe what it says instead of inventing some "mystery?"

In Acts, at the martyrdom of St. Stephen, he has a vision:

"But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God..." (Acts 7:55)

Did Stephen see God standing on the right hand of himself? I had one guy tell me that Stephen saw some "glory" and Jesus standing on the right hand of it. That's just goofy!

Likewise, the separateness of the Godhead is illustrated in the creation narrative from Genesis. Note the repeated use of the plural pronouns "us" and "our."

"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth..." (Genesis 5:1-3)

Also notice that Adam was made in the "likeness" of God. Some people try to say this means that man was made in God's spiritual image (whatever that means, since they also say God is invisible). However, immediately after the verse that says that Adam was created in God's image, it says that Adam had a son named Seth "in his own likeness." So does that mean that Adam and Seth were the same? No, it means that he looked like his Father. Thus Adam and his descendants look like the God who created them. He has a body, a human form.

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Genesis 1:26-27)

Satan promised Eve, that if she ate of the forbidden fruit, she would become "as the gods" (note the plural) knowing good and evil. Later, the Creators spoke of this, stating that it had come to pass.

"And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil..." (Genesis 3:22)

Who is God talking to? The angels? Why then do the Creators confirm that man has become as one of us (the gods) knowing good and evil. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three separate and distinct beings. That makes three Gods in one Godhead. Elohim, the name of God used throughout Genesis is a plural Hebrew word.

The Greek Bible's use of the word Logos to describe Jesus as "the Word of God" was used by Greeks to connect Jesus to the Logos of Plato. Plato was certainly not Christian and he preceded Christ's birth by some 400 years. Knowing he would soon die and Seeing the divisions and controversies this and other false teachings were beginning to stir in the primitive Christian Church, Peter wrote:

"Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance. For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount." (2 Peter 1:16)

Peter has no confusion as to whether Christ was the "Logos" or whether Christ and the Father are one personage. Peter refers here to the experience recounted in Matthew 17 and Mark 9 where Jesus took him, as well as James and John into a high mountain. There, they say Moses and Elias appear and commune with the transfigured Jesus. They also heard the voice of the Father declare: "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."

Peter knew. He urged Christians to not follow the "cunningly devised fables" of Neoplatonism. Likewise, Paul wrote:

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." (Colossians 2:9)

Some Trinitarians use this to point out that Jesus and the Father were one Being. This is not so. The following Bible verses shed more light on the matter.

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself... (John 5:26)

"The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand." (John 3:35)

"...I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I ago unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." (John 14:28)

"I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb." (John 16:28-29)

Why would God give something to himself when he already possessed it to begin with? Why would he say that he would go unto himself when he was already there? How would be be greater than himself? How would he come forth from himself into the world and leave it when he is transcendent through it all? The disciples understood. They said in essence, "You're not talking in proverbs here, we get it. You--the Son--came out from the Heavenly Father and you're going back to him again. We understand. You are speaking plainly."

CONTINUING ON...

Here are a few more verses that show the separateness of Jesus and the Father.

"Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him." (John 8:28-29)

"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." (Matthew 28:18)

If Jesus and the Father are the same person, these passages become nonsensical. I speak the things I taught me...I don't do anything of myself, because I do the will of myself who sent me. He that sent me (me) is with me and I have not left myself alone, for I always do the things which please me?

When the resurrected Lord appeared to Mary, was he saying, "Touch me not, because I have not yet ascended to myself?" I am going to ascend to myself? To the disciples, did he say, "All power is given me (by myself) in heaven and in earth (which I had to begin with because I was always in me to begin with)?

Go read all of John chapter 17 and try to think of it as Jesus praying to himself. It doesn't make any sense at all from that point of view.

The scriptures clearly show that Jesus and his Father are two separate distinct personages, that the Son is submissive to the will of the Father, and that he obtained a fulness of the qualities of Godhood after passing through the resurrection. This gave him a resurrected body, like the Father hath, all power and authority, and all things (including death) were now subject to him. Now, what about the Holy Ghost?

THE HOLY GHOST SEPARATE FROM THE FATHER AND THE SON

The previously quoted scripture about the baptism of Jesus shows that the Holy Ghost is separate personage from the Father and the Son. Luke chapter 3, verse 22 tells us: "And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased." Notice that the Holy Ghost did not appear as a dove. It descended in bodily form and that it's gentle descent upon Jesus was like a dove. The Holy Ghost does not have a physical, tangible body like the Father and the Son, but is a personage of spirit.

Jesus told his disciples that if he did not go away, the Comforter (the Holy Ghost) would not come to them.

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. (John 16:7)

If the Triune God existed, how is it that the Holy Ghost could not come to them, since he would have been there along with Christ and the Father? I have had good Christian people answer me over these things and retreat into the ultimate cop-out: "It's a mystery." We're not supposed to understand it. It is beyond us. If so, then eternal life is beyond any of us. Jesus said:

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

Our mission is to know God, what he is, how he lives, and what his mind and will is for each of us. I hope you will consider these scriptures I have cited you. Please bear in mind that the scriptures alone are not the source of our knowledge of these things. God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to the Prophet Joseph Smith in 1820. Like Peter of old, we do not believe in the "cunningly devised fables" of the third and fourth centuries that were codified into Christian creeds. We believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost as they were known by the saints of old. We are eyewitnesses of their majesty, like the New Testament saints. The more sure word of prophecy abounds among us. We invite you to study, ponder, and to ask God if these things are true.

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Originally posted 7/4/2008
Bumped on 2/10/2009

[Ronnie Bray]

Whatever anyone says or believes, from pew member to auguste theologians and biblical scholars - of which I know many with international reputations - the doctrine of a Triune Gods is not to be found in the Holy Bible.

Trinitarians find what is not there in divers biblical passages from which they deduce three person or three anythings, such as the baptism of Jesus [Mt. 3:15-17], where Son, Spirit, and Father are identified. Yet there is no sentence in the Bible that supports the apostate idea that 'these three are one.'

Except --- the Johannine Comma says of Father, Son, and Spirit, that, 'these three are one.'

It is there and it is the only place in the Bible that even hints at Trinity. So, are Mormons scuppered? Are Trinitarians vindicated?

Although superficially it would seem to be the case, the truth is that the Johannine Comma is a late interpolation that is not found in any of the earliest manuscripts of the Johannine Epistles.

Erasmus knew that when he made his translation of the NT, but he was too politically timid to risk the anathema of a powerful Vatican to risk being burned as an heretick. He folded, and its life was spared. Yet it is interesting to note that modern versions of the Bible do not include this verse.

[Greg West]

It's funny how the two sides work to undermine our position. You have a bunch of creed-based religionists who truly believe in "magical thinking" and then you have secularists whose derision for religion comes because they are unable to discern the difference between false religion and true. The fact that BOTH sides oppose us is an indication that we are right on the money.

[Brian Sanderson]

I have an earnest young friend who tells me "the scriptures don't always have to make sense" (he means the Bible, of course)...but then what is the point of reading them to learn if you *can't* make sense of what you read?